Well, sems oyu habve never seen or heard of the greatet golf striker
(T.Woods) Moe Norman.?
Consistency? Tiger cant find the fairway. The best ballstrikers of all time
had flat backswings. Ben Hogan, Moe Norman, Lee Trevino. Did you really
mention Dustin Johnson as having a good swing??
Hogan wrote in the (5) lessons, 1985 print revision page 91, “The faster
the hips move the better. They can’t go too fast.”
Tiger Woods wrote in How I Play Gold c. 2001 page 199, “I’m unwinding my
hips as fast as they can possibly go.”
Is maximum hip rotation speed on the downswing important or not??
Tiger can’t even play because he has so much pain. Remember he had surgery
on his back??? Sorry guys but you missed this one. A flatter swing is much
better. And to your reference to Fred Couples, …. He was plagued with
back injuries his entire career.?
Very informative. I’m not flexible enough to restrict my hip movement—a
requirement of the one-plane swing—and use separation as a power source.
I also prefer a more upright posture at address. I’ll stick with the
two-plane or rotary swing. Even though I do believe that flat, very
connected swings like Hunter Mahan’s are pretty to look at. ?
Funny How Matt Kuchar is Back Pain free, and yet Tiger is dealing with
major Back issues which ended up in surgery and blew out his back yet again
at Torrey Pines. The exact opposite of what you say lag Dr, has actually
happened.?
OMG all you guys who try to pick and discredit Clay and Chuck make me
laugh. As a former teaching pro I wanna pull out my hair when I see all the
crap instruction and tips on the internet and YouTube. 95% is a complete
joke… I’ve decided to start playing competitive golf again after some
minor back surgery and have been working to tweak my swing with the RST
swing thoughts and teachers and couldn’t be happier!!! Keep up the great
work Chuck and Clay and obviously let your subscribers and in person lesson
schedule do the talking, can’t wait to head back down to Lake Nona this
summer and get in some work with you guys!!!?
We do realize that kuchar perpetually leads or is in the very top in
scoring average, yes? ?
A swing like tigers and a rst type swing does not generate injury or
increases your chances for not getting injured just is not true. Obviously
Tiger has injuries but in general injury is gonna come from repetition of
constant twisting and contorting of your body and if anything you have an
equal or higher chance of injury from an rst swing because of the downward
drive of the upper body and upward drive of the lower body as seen from
tiger in that very swing. The club then returns in a higher impact plane vs
the original shaft plane as seen with all rst swingers. That causes plenty
of injuries as we are seeing with tiger in the back. All the years of
driving hard with the lower body and compressing with the upper will catch
up to you. I’m not a one plane swinger nor do I advocate it but no matter
what swing you make you have a chance for injury and I dont think it’s any
greater under any swing. While one planers may rotate harder rst type
swings drive harder. Either way you set yourself up for a chance to be
inured.
Cheers
Ben Wagner?
10:32 it’s another way of saying “stay connected”. but then I guess I’m
giving away my age.?
Square to Square is the best way to go for amateurs. Data backs this up btw?
In fact, Matt’s swing is not one plane, his swing plane angle is the same
as tiger’s. this book “decoding the golf swing plane” explains it all on
page 115.?
I love how every one of your videos is SELLING your method. If you were to
actually ASK Matt, he’d tell you in no uncertain terms that the OPS he’s
using is far easier on his body than his old swing. Granted, it’s not for
everyone, but to say it’ll lead to back problems just because you think
it’s not as efficient as RST is bunk. Body shapes and abilities are as
individual as fingerprints. Making blanket assertions to sell your method
is intellectually dishonest at best.?
Unfortunately, you analysed an old swing of Matt’s. Check out the last
analysis from Wayne Defrancesco and you’ll see that he swang with the left
arm much more vertical in 2013…
Regarding the fact that flatter swings do not produce as much club head
speed as more vertical ones, I think that history does not support this
strong statement. Indeed, two of the best ball strickers that ever lived
and who are still recognised as such nowadays had flat swings. I’m off
course refering to Ben Hogan and Moe Norman !?
You are right but for amatuers who can’t practice every day I think a one
plane swing is just easier and more consistent. My distance is actually
better only becuase I hit it more square. My occasiona bombs that I use to
have with a more upright swing is gone but the consistency was never there.?
To me one plane swing is just great. Believe me i have tried putting arm up
but huge problem is that you lose consistency. I mean as a tennis
instructor a lot of times we can’t teach the way pro hit to normal people.
We do not have same scale or their atheletic ability. I believe so many
sports coaches including myself make big mistake on this. Pro and we are
different. They can do something we can’t do. I believe that if all the
golf coahes teaches the amture the one plane swing then their score inrease
dramatically. I mean many times golf or tennis have been taught way and way
too complex. And many times it causes amatures to play bad. Watch those
older weekends players. Their swings aren’t really text book but they play
really well. Tennis is in same thing. To me one plane swing is very simple
form of swing. I always think to take golf clube bak 45 degree angle. it is
like unit turn take club back with rotation. With this way you can always
have same take back. if you bring club up then you can have million
different golf swing. Again. for us shooting 80’s is good enough. if you
can hit the ball straight then your score will be better. Tennis is same
thing if you can play consistent then you can beat y our friends. but in
order to make millions by playing golf or tennis then that’s different
story. Just like tennis you must have great techniques to do it. Maybe one
plane is not the way to go. Espeially in tour level you need to have
distance. Just like tennis nobody take racket back straight. Yes there are
maybe one out of 1000 players do but it’s not coommon. there are reasons
why they do that.?
(cont.) I think it is great that you question any instruction that you
hear, just as you are now. I believe any instructor should be able to back
up any statement they make with sound reasoning. I look forward to talking
with you again soon sasquatchtour! Good luck with your game! ~Clay Ballard
Your right, he has flattened his swing plane since Haney. He is still more
upright than a one plane swing. A difference in what Foley teaches and
stack and tilt is the spine angle at the top of the swing. Tiger has
significant axis tilt away from the target, which Stack and Tilt does not
advocate. In 2007 his average driving distance was 302.4 this year it is
293.7. Both swings are very good and would recommend 99% of moves to any
golfer, although I don’t agree with every piece. ~Clay Ballard
With all due respect I could not disagree with you more. Your theory of one
plane vs two regarding body type etc may apply to tour pros but honestly, I
do not see tour pros posting or watching these videos. At 5′ 9″, I switched
to a one plane swing last year. My accuracy and lenght with both long and
short irons and woods increased in a atonishing manner. My handicap went
down immediately from a 10 to a 6 and has settled at a nice 3 since. It
took me 20 years to get to 10, two months to 3.
You pros and cons sounds like you do not know the on plane swing as well as
you think you do. You need to readJim Hardy’s “The Plane Truth”, a get up
to speed. Secondly,must because you can’t effectively teach the one plane
swing does not mean there is a disadvantage of the swing. Iif you key
demographic is going to be older less athletic player then maybe you are on
to something.
Actually it’s the opposite of what you are saying. Tigers swing has
steepened slightly under foley closer to where it was with Harmon but with
a much steeper shoulder turn. Tiger does have about 5degrees more shoulder
tilt at address than stack and tilt model preference but foley is a
disciple of the theory and will integrate what he can as it seems to be
working. As far as distance goes by average it’s hard to say since he is
hitting more 3 and 5 metals off the tee than he used to
Very true. Tiger used to have several issues in his swing that put him at
risk for injury. Overactive hips, too much axis tilt, and snapping the left
knee. In reality, we can all get injured, even with perfect technique. Some
are luckier than others. But with better technique there is less risk. I
hope Kuchar does great! ~Clay Ballard
Anyone who doesnt play 4 times a week should go single plane and kuchar yes
is flat tigers swing is too hard for average players and two planes is not
impossible for old people chris my teacher is 57 and hits it 330!!!! With a
1 plane swing and injury ha bullshit. Watch tigers mid back and his
compression screw this gimmicky rotary swing
Great. If you are hitting a fade, that is coming from the downswing. Most
likely you are coming a bit over the top. I would start out with the over
the top fault and fix series on the site. That will really help you to know
how and what to change. Click the link in the description of this video,
then sign up for your premium membership and you will have access to that
series. ~Clay Ballard
You should check out the 5 Minutes to the Perfect Backswing video I
attached for you to watch for free. Just click the link in the description
of the video. It will walk you through the entire process of how to get
into the perfect spot at the top. I can promise you that you will have no
questions about how to do these moves after watching the video. Good luck,
I am looking forward to seeing you on the site. ~Clay Ballard
Well, sems oyu habve never seen or heard of the greatet golf striker
(T.Woods) Moe Norman.?
Consistency? Tiger cant find the fairway. The best ballstrikers of all time
had flat backswings. Ben Hogan, Moe Norman, Lee Trevino. Did you really
mention Dustin Johnson as having a good swing??
Hogan wrote in the (5) lessons, 1985 print revision page 91, “The faster
the hips move the better. They can’t go too fast.”
Tiger Woods wrote in How I Play Gold c. 2001 page 199, “I’m unwinding my
hips as fast as they can possibly go.”
Is maximum hip rotation speed on the downswing important or not??
Tiger can’t even play because he has so much pain. Remember he had surgery
on his back??? Sorry guys but you missed this one. A flatter swing is much
better. And to your reference to Fred Couples, …. He was plagued with
back injuries his entire career.?
Very informative. I’m not flexible enough to restrict my hip movement—a
requirement of the one-plane swing—and use separation as a power source.
I also prefer a more upright posture at address. I’ll stick with the
two-plane or rotary swing. Even though I do believe that flat, very
connected swings like Hunter Mahan’s are pretty to look at. ?
Funny How Matt Kuchar is Back Pain free, and yet Tiger is dealing with
major Back issues which ended up in surgery and blew out his back yet again
at Torrey Pines. The exact opposite of what you say lag Dr, has actually
happened.?
OMG all you guys who try to pick and discredit Clay and Chuck make me
laugh. As a former teaching pro I wanna pull out my hair when I see all the
crap instruction and tips on the internet and YouTube. 95% is a complete
joke… I’ve decided to start playing competitive golf again after some
minor back surgery and have been working to tweak my swing with the RST
swing thoughts and teachers and couldn’t be happier!!! Keep up the great
work Chuck and Clay and obviously let your subscribers and in person lesson
schedule do the talking, can’t wait to head back down to Lake Nona this
summer and get in some work with you guys!!!?
We do realize that kuchar perpetually leads or is in the very top in
scoring average, yes? ?
A swing like tigers and a rst type swing does not generate injury or
increases your chances for not getting injured just is not true. Obviously
Tiger has injuries but in general injury is gonna come from repetition of
constant twisting and contorting of your body and if anything you have an
equal or higher chance of injury from an rst swing because of the downward
drive of the upper body and upward drive of the lower body as seen from
tiger in that very swing. The club then returns in a higher impact plane vs
the original shaft plane as seen with all rst swingers. That causes plenty
of injuries as we are seeing with tiger in the back. All the years of
driving hard with the lower body and compressing with the upper will catch
up to you. I’m not a one plane swinger nor do I advocate it but no matter
what swing you make you have a chance for injury and I dont think it’s any
greater under any swing. While one planers may rotate harder rst type
swings drive harder. Either way you set yourself up for a chance to be
inured.
Cheers
Ben Wagner?
10:32 it’s another way of saying “stay connected”. but then I guess I’m
giving away my age.?
Square to Square is the best way to go for amateurs. Data backs this up btw?
In fact, Matt’s swing is not one plane, his swing plane angle is the same
as tiger’s. this book “decoding the golf swing plane” explains it all on
page 115.?
I love how every one of your videos is SELLING your method. If you were to
actually ASK Matt, he’d tell you in no uncertain terms that the OPS he’s
using is far easier on his body than his old swing. Granted, it’s not for
everyone, but to say it’ll lead to back problems just because you think
it’s not as efficient as RST is bunk. Body shapes and abilities are as
individual as fingerprints. Making blanket assertions to sell your method
is intellectually dishonest at best.?
Unfortunately, you analysed an old swing of Matt’s. Check out the last
analysis from Wayne Defrancesco and you’ll see that he swang with the left
arm much more vertical in 2013…
Regarding the fact that flatter swings do not produce as much club head
speed as more vertical ones, I think that history does not support this
strong statement. Indeed, two of the best ball strickers that ever lived
and who are still recognised as such nowadays had flat swings. I’m off
course refering to Ben Hogan and Moe Norman !?
You are right but for amatuers who can’t practice every day I think a one
plane swing is just easier and more consistent. My distance is actually
better only becuase I hit it more square. My occasiona bombs that I use to
have with a more upright swing is gone but the consistency was never there.?
To me one plane swing is just great. Believe me i have tried putting arm up
but huge problem is that you lose consistency. I mean as a tennis
instructor a lot of times we can’t teach the way pro hit to normal people.
We do not have same scale or their atheletic ability. I believe so many
sports coaches including myself make big mistake on this. Pro and we are
different. They can do something we can’t do. I believe that if all the
golf coahes teaches the amture the one plane swing then their score inrease
dramatically. I mean many times golf or tennis have been taught way and way
too complex. And many times it causes amatures to play bad. Watch those
older weekends players. Their swings aren’t really text book but they play
really well. Tennis is in same thing. To me one plane swing is very simple
form of swing. I always think to take golf clube bak 45 degree angle. it is
like unit turn take club back with rotation. With this way you can always
have same take back. if you bring club up then you can have million
different golf swing. Again. for us shooting 80’s is good enough. if you
can hit the ball straight then your score will be better. Tennis is same
thing if you can play consistent then you can beat y our friends. but in
order to make millions by playing golf or tennis then that’s different
story. Just like tennis you must have great techniques to do it. Maybe one
plane is not the way to go. Espeially in tour level you need to have
distance. Just like tennis nobody take racket back straight. Yes there are
maybe one out of 1000 players do but it’s not coommon. there are reasons
why they do that.?
(cont.) I think it is great that you question any instruction that you
hear, just as you are now. I believe any instructor should be able to back
up any statement they make with sound reasoning. I look forward to talking
with you again soon sasquatchtour! Good luck with your game! ~Clay Ballard
Your right, he has flattened his swing plane since Haney. He is still more
upright than a one plane swing. A difference in what Foley teaches and
stack and tilt is the spine angle at the top of the swing. Tiger has
significant axis tilt away from the target, which Stack and Tilt does not
advocate. In 2007 his average driving distance was 302.4 this year it is
293.7. Both swings are very good and would recommend 99% of moves to any
golfer, although I don’t agree with every piece. ~Clay Ballard
With all due respect I could not disagree with you more. Your theory of one
plane vs two regarding body type etc may apply to tour pros but honestly, I
do not see tour pros posting or watching these videos. At 5′ 9″, I switched
to a one plane swing last year. My accuracy and lenght with both long and
short irons and woods increased in a atonishing manner. My handicap went
down immediately from a 10 to a 6 and has settled at a nice 3 since. It
took me 20 years to get to 10, two months to 3.
You pros and cons sounds like you do not know the on plane swing as well as
you think you do. You need to readJim Hardy’s “The Plane Truth”, a get up
to speed. Secondly,must because you can’t effectively teach the one plane
swing does not mean there is a disadvantage of the swing. Iif you key
demographic is going to be older less athletic player then maybe you are on
to something.
Actually it’s the opposite of what you are saying. Tigers swing has
steepened slightly under foley closer to where it was with Harmon but with
a much steeper shoulder turn. Tiger does have about 5degrees more shoulder
tilt at address than stack and tilt model preference but foley is a
disciple of the theory and will integrate what he can as it seems to be
working. As far as distance goes by average it’s hard to say since he is
hitting more 3 and 5 metals off the tee than he used to
Very true. Tiger used to have several issues in his swing that put him at
risk for injury. Overactive hips, too much axis tilt, and snapping the left
knee. In reality, we can all get injured, even with perfect technique. Some
are luckier than others. But with better technique there is less risk. I
hope Kuchar does great! ~Clay Ballard
Anyone who doesnt play 4 times a week should go single plane and kuchar yes
is flat tigers swing is too hard for average players and two planes is not
impossible for old people chris my teacher is 57 and hits it 330!!!! With a
1 plane swing and injury ha bullshit. Watch tigers mid back and his
compression screw this gimmicky rotary swing
Great. If you are hitting a fade, that is coming from the downswing. Most
likely you are coming a bit over the top. I would start out with the over
the top fault and fix series on the site. That will really help you to know
how and what to change. Click the link in the description of this video,
then sign up for your premium membership and you will have access to that
series. ~Clay Ballard
You should check out the 5 Minutes to the Perfect Backswing video I
attached for you to watch for free. Just click the link in the description
of the video. It will walk you through the entire process of how to get
into the perfect spot at the top. I can promise you that you will have no
questions about how to do these moves after watching the video. Good luck,
I am looking forward to seeing you on the site. ~Clay Ballard